Monday, November 13, 2006

Will it ever change.....?

How is everyone doing since my last blog? The chase for the Worlds has taken a strange twist now with Colin Monk making the last 4 in Holland at the weekend and although its still all to play for he has now gone into pole position for that last automatic spot. Mick McGowan once again doing brilliantly in getting to the final defeating Phil "the power" Taylor in the last 8 before going out to Lloyd in the final. Bad weekend by Taylors standards as Welsh man Barrie Bates did him in the final yesterday. Taylor is gracious in defeat though and when I was talking to Mick on Saturday Taylor popped on the phone and told me in person of Micks performance in a 110 average showing against the Power. Fair play to Taylor for doing that as I was at a friends Wedding in Wicklow this weekend and could not attend. Well done again Mick and of course Barrie Bates who still is in great form of late.

I'm going to mention this again now as this particular matter is close to my heart. I know I go on about World darts in my blog and world darts is mainly the topic of every conversation I have in any given day but my home towns local running of darts is still something I monitor and keep an eye on and to say the least lads it is a TOTAL AND UTTER JOKE. The way it is being run has to change. Its as simple as that and as plain as the nose on anyones face. I popped down the other night to see the semi final of the league and ended up going to see the semi final of the losers group. It is the first year of the losers group and it had more of an attendance than the "winners" group. Another JOKE. The game is dying on its feet down there. I remember only 3 years ago you would have got a full house for a semi final but not now. Probably to do with the boredom factor as people are sick to death of seeing the same teams in the semi final stages in all 4 "knockoutleagues" that are run throughout the year. Its the only place in Ireland that run 4 leagues "its not a league when if you lose you are out" in a 7 month spell. Tramore is a seasonal town and 7 months is a perfect lenght of time to run a 16 team league.

If you cannot see lads that this league is not working I dont think you are the people needed to promote the game and get the interest back as we all know at least it was there in the past. Why not try it on a league basis. Afterall thats what you call it. Pro's and con's to everything of course. Pubs in Tramore that have put their hat into the ring in the past are as follows. O Neills, Alfies, Sea Horse (of late), Cape, Bohans, Sands ( although they might not give you the free drink and the taxi and I dont blame them for that when you way everything up) Murphs, Murphys, Fenor, Dunhill, Tramore GAA, O Sheas. I'm sure I've forgotten one or two but it doesn't matter. 16 teams in this "knockout league". Bohans with 2 teams, Sands 3, O Neills 2, Dunhill 2. €25 to enter a team each go so with 4 of your "knockout leagues" in a 7 month spell these pubs I've just mentioned pay ( Bohans,O Neills and Dunhill 2 teams each by 4 leagues = €200 each on entry fee) (Sands 3 teams by 4 leagues = €300 entry fee...no wonder they wont pay for taxis)

Most of these teams get darts in their pubs for 1 night per "knockout league" for this and its not worth it. As like nearly 90% of leagues in Ireland every team should be given a chance. Play ALL the teams twice home and away with the away team handing in their team first so the home team can be tactically aware and pair their team off against the away team as best they can....hence give them home advantage. As it stands their is no home advantage as its just another Oche and both captains submit their teams at the same time which that too defeats the home and away purpose.Another joke when you think about it. As it stands at the moment also is that the only reason they play home and away is to give the publican a few arses on his seat for one night in the league before their team gets knocked out. Or four nights to the eventual winners.

16 teams entered at €25 a team. €400 per "knockout league" which is €1600 on entry fees over the 4 "knockout league". I guarantee you that if publicans had a league game in their pub every week the price money would increase. The problem you look for then is that it may not suit each team to play every Thursday. Thats simple. Arrange the league game between the 2 captains and play it whenever you want under whatever format the committee decides they run it under as its easy to decide on that. It wont be long before those who want to play darts and those who dont are found out. The home and away advantage I spoke about earlier will give lesser teams a genuine advantage and as I say give these lesser teams a genuine chance of winning or even come close to winning. Legs won and lost should come into a league too and this would mean nobody should walk away with it as at the moment their are 3 classes of teams. 1. Those expected to win it..... 2. Those not expected to win it but whom the so called big boys want to avoid and 3. Those who are poor teams but play coz they want to. Imagine giving those teams in category 3 and chance to play darts 30 nights every 7 months instead of 8 times(15 other teams by 2)they would jump on it and it gives the committee a chance to INCREASE their entry fees as the publican would easily pay more to have darts in their pub once a week for 30 weeks. Arrange for the game to be played whatever night they want with the publican reporting the result to the committe secretary once a week.

If of course ya get teams not turning up throw them out. Its up to the pub to field the team and if a pub enters a team and they dont turn up they are letting the pubs down and the opposition given the points. Teams at the moment dont turn up coz they are 6.1 down and have no hope.As I said earlier if someone has the option of competitve darts for 30 weeks in a year it will not be long before they'll tell you if they think it is good or bad idea to them. The more they play the better they'll get and the knock on effect to that is the more they'll want to play.

Its time to cop on to whats happening lads and let the dictators see sense. We all know Tramore darts has the odd dictator or 2 but they have to either shown sense or the door. One or the other. The game is dying and will die totally like it did in the 80's in Tramore if its not sorted now. People have told me that "we have more teams in the league now than we ever had". That means nothing lads unless its utilised and the only way you can utilise it is to let them play. Darts being played in pubs regularly means more entry fees which is good for the committee. More price money for competitors, more darts for darts players and at the end when the top 4 teams in the league play off in 2 semi finals i guarantee after a long hard fought out season you'll see more attendances at the semis and not a half dozen like we did the other night. A TOTAL AND UTTER JOKE.

You can still take breaks here and there and run your Memorial trophies such as Billy Kennedy and Noel Browne as they are great tournaments and run in memory of 2 great gentlemen I believe and I would never impose on those and of course fund raiser doubles and singles to raise money for the committee from time to time but lads we'll have nothing in the next few years unless someone has the liathroids to make a stance now. Let people play. Change before its too late.

To be honest I have a lot more genuine points on this topic so if anyone has any issues with what I said I can easily be contacted. Positive or negative issues lads I dont mind.

38 comments:

Anonymous said...

Go on the Keown.
Spot on.
Its all about playing and not giving dolers a few quid 4 times a year or whatever it is.Spot on.
Get a petition going. I'll seen it.
M.B.

Anonymous said...

Well bo,
Dead right there big man. I couldn't believe reading that the league is a knockout competition. What is a "knockout league"? It's a contradiction in terms.

In any sport you will ever play there is a seperate round-robin and knockout competition. The only way a game will ever develop is by introducing some sort of league aspect to it where all of the teams play each other on a regular basis. Otherwise the weaker teams will never improve. They will get very limited opportunities to match themselves against the stronger teams and raise their games, gain experience, and identify what is required to be succesful.

Look at the GAA (something I don't often do) where they have had to introduce changes to the knockout system in order to develop the game. The european cup in football was changed to guarantee more games (and revenue) for each team.

Regular competition generates great interest and a lot of cameraderie and rivalry between teams as they get to know wach other's strengths and weaknesses.

Expanding any competetion to a league basis can only be of benefit to that competition. I can't think of a single valid reason why the weakest team in a sporting organisation would only play one match in their entire season.

In other news Noelie you were producing some intricate looking shapes on the dancefloor on Friday. I think I've seen the Loch Ness monster as many times as I have seen you on a dancefloor. Go on the jockey.

Anonymous said...

KEOGHAN HERE AGAIN.
Good point from the 2 dog there. Never thought I'd be comparing darts to the GAA but brilliant point.
As for my dancing.That was my evil twin. I was in disguise. I was the fella with the beard and the Galway accent.

Anonymous said...

I used to play darts down there for few years in college days.....there was fcuk all darts on during to get you used to playing competitive darts so you were left to practice on your own. Then you play a league match on a Thursday and as we wouldnt have been the strongest outfit we were knocked out by the "dolers" after a home/away match. Total Joke as they still call it a league. A round Robin with 4 groups of 4 is clearly the way to go and it will get the pubs keener to pay the entry fees as they are guaranteed to make it up on drink with players in their pubs every Thursday. This is so bleedin obvious to us Im suprised its even an issue. Just fckn do it.

Anonymous said...

Alan the Carlow league is run in league format too. It suits. Some teams are poor others are good but its competitive and well supported and they could have enough for 3 divisions if they want.Maybe they already do. Hard to imagine if we went to knock out format. Dont think it would be as successful. Having 4 leagues a year is selfish if there is a big standard difference and the teams that you said are in category 3 must be left play more or at least given the option. Great site. When will we see Wozza again up here. Maybe before Irish masters if you are around.

Anonymous said...

Now butty, There is no other darts competition in Waterford that can boast 16 teams 4 times a year and I tell you now that no dolers make any money out of it and I KNOW THAT FOR A FACT!!! all the money is "doled" out to the players that win,in fact the Tramore dart league is the only dart competition in the waterford city/tramore area so give them a break will you for fuck sake, what is your problem butty?? was you not loved enough as a lickle baby????

Anonymous said...

you are bang on with your coments alan. a league gives everybody a chance and can only improve the game in the town. two leagues of 8 teams would work with playoffs at the end for the top 2 in each. then there could be a winners and losers final. the league could be seeded after this, with teams been promoted and relegated on performance.this would gives teams something to play for every week.there is no time like the present to do this as the current "league" is coming to an end.are ya coming down to see the final on Thursday??

Anonymous said...

I have been playing in the Tramore darts league for the past 9 years or so.The team i play with plays because we love the game and the crack.We are no world beaters and usually go out in the first round which means it is up to three months before our next game.This is the first competition in years that they have put in a losers group(and the only reason they are having one this time around is because one of the pubs asked for it.)The league in Tramore is going nowhere.The same teams are always there at the end.There are only 2 or 3 teams that can win because of the way the league is run.Unless these teams meet on the way they are guaranteed to be in the final.So the stronger are getting stronger and the weaker are going nowhere.The committee think that if they were to start a season long league,that teams would get fed up and stop turning up.I disagree.For the last number of years teams have failed to turn up for return legs and what has happened to the teams that fail to turn up F all.The onus is on the pubs to get them out,and they will with a league run over 30 weeks or so.A league would be of great benefit especially to the weaker teams.You are out every week for a number of months,where if it stays as it is your out a couple of weeks of the year.If the committee are against it,i think the players in the league should have the final say by way of a vote.Come on Tramore darts league committee stop living in the past and get your heads out of the sand. signed:619

Anonymous said...

as regular in tramore gaa you would think that it would be benificiory that the tramore darts league revamps to league format for the benefit of players of all abilities.

Anonymous said...

you are bang on there alan, aleague is the way to go, a two league format with aplay off at the end for the top two in each league. this could only serveto keep everybody intrested. aseeding system might also be an idea,which colud bring promotion and relagation into play. the league format wolud also give people working shift a chance to play which could bring more people and teams in. with a knockout at the end of the season. The only thing i wouldnt agree with is having the night for playing flexible this could end up in chaos, two designated nights maybe thursday and friday nights..

"up alfies tomorrow night"

Anonymous said...

Exactly. Also as it stands with 4 knockouts at the moment it belittles the eventual winner. 4 winners in a year is a bit stupid I'm sure you'll agree. 1 league would make the winner a lot more respective. At the moment you win a league and it seems nobody cares as another one starts in 2 weeks. One thorough league means one winner and one champion. The way it should be. What seems better. 4 FA Cup wins in 1 year or 1 premiership title in 1 year. I know what i'd want.

Anonymous said...

Fair play to you Alan i hope some members on the Tramore darts committee read your blog.I,like anonymous,play on one of the lesser teams in the league.Sometimes we might cause an upset but more often than not we are out after the first round and waiting weeks for a game.Its time the players in the league spoke up and said what they think.I think a petition would be a good idea for starters.The pub i play for,sponsor one of the competitions during the season and said they would have no problem putting extra prize money in on a league basis.Regular darts means more business and players playing more often.Who knows what can happen?but if we keep going the way we are with the same teams repeatedly reaching the latter stages,i hate to say it,but darts in Tramore will be doomed. signed:sportacus!!

Anonymous said...

I gave up playing the darts league,its boring.The committee aren't interested in doing anything,bar Angela,i think a league is a great idea.

Anonymous said...

as my comment of the other night has not been published it is quite obvious to see you can give it out but you cannot take it alan, so you are no better than the rest and should stay quiet in future.

Anonymous said...

once again noelie if youve hit the nail on the head. follow the example the gaa set, the championship was been stifled because of a knock out setup, since the 'back door' came there has been a lot more games for so called weaker counties. albeit the big names are still in the latter stages, there always seem to be one surprise team. you only get better if you play better teams.

id agree with John M about having set nights for the darts as otherwise it will get messy. thirsday and friday is a good idea, every pub should be able to put out a team on a friday or saturday.

maybe noelie you should get involved with this committee and get on it. its all well and good making good sugestions from the sideline, but someone needs to push this through and follow up on it.....

Anonymous said...

anonymous you obviously made a pigs ear of your comment the other night because i can assure you all comments are posted, so make your point if you want to

Anonymous said...

Anonymous most certainly did make a pigs ear of it the other night. Its not rocket science. "obviously I can give it but cannot take it".
Cannot take what? This message can only have been wrote by one of 4 people. This is exactly the mentality that has the game in Tramore on deaths door. When you cant handle whats happening around you instead of trying to be constructive you come out with this give it and take it lark. If the truth be told I dont think anyone on the committee down there will have the nerve to change and will probably see it as "giving in" if they do change. This is nothing to do with giving in or these giving comments or taking comments. This is nothing personal. This is about the good of darts and absolutely nothing else. In actual fact I get on reasonably well with all Tramore darts but that doesn't mean that I have ever agreed with anything they have done. I wrote about this before and it fell on deaf ears. It'll probably fall on deaf ears this time too but it wont stop me writing it.Less of the negative defensive antics and more of the positive thinking and this game will blossom again. Its also about a bit of innovation on the Committee too. I agree that Angela is fantastic on it. No doubt about that. If you had 5 Angelas on it we'd have no need to change and would probably be already in the right direction. To be honest I wasn't expecting the reaction and the comments I have received from Tramore for writing this as I in particular have been saying this for years. I just felt after the attendance issue last Thursday it needed to be reminded to those in command but as I said earlier there will be a million reasons to do this and a handfall to not to do it. The main negative I'm sure will be "but nobody will turn up". If this is the case it means surely that in the current set up there are teams who do not want to play and who are in it to make up the numbers. Hardly progress in any mans language. I like John Mahers comments too about giving shift workers the chance to play as well as I never thought about that and I know he does shift work himself and is bulling to play. Da Irish says I should go on it. They know I have other darts commitments which would make it impossible to go on any committee but maybe they should be looking for fresh blood to go on it and bring as I say a bit of innovation and creativity to it as its lacking.NOTHING PERSONAL LADS SO KEEP YOUR TAILS BETWEEN YOUR LEGS.IF YOU LOSE THE HEAD YOU'LL GET NOTHING DONE.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous. What are you on about? Alan is not as bad as ye. He is for the good of the game. Clear to see that. By saying he is as bad is basically admitting how bad you actually are. You see. You know ye are not up to it and you know he is right. The whole town is on about it at this stage.I am first cousin to Borat.

Anonymous said...

ok Alan relax boy, Take into account that the T.D.L is the only darts league in the waterford city/tramore area boasting 16 teams again this season and also publican sponsorship. A point was brought to the commitee about having a losers group and what happened??? It was taken on board and voila, we have a losers group so comments made by you and others do not go unnoticed do they?? As for the remarks made about "dolers" making a few pound I refute that as I assure you that all money that goes into the league is "doled" out to the players, if you bothered to add up the figures that would be obvious to see,Anyone that gets to the semi or final will have spent a lot more than the winnings on beer I reckon.In future alan think before you go off the rails ranting and raving about something you do not have all the facts to methinks!!Apologies to the webmaster if you did not get my original comment, maybe and I say maybe I sent it wrong.To all the lads that play in the league I say well done and lets keep darts going as much as we can anyway. I know that a good deal of work goes into the running of the T.D.L not only by angela but by Phil,Tommy and Barry so give us all a small bit of credit please!!

Anonymous said...

Genuine john boy borats butty, I know Alan very well and I know he is all for the good of the game but sometimes he has a habit of engaging the gob before he switches on his grey matter!!!!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the time and effort to anonymous again. As I said in my original blog. I welcome the negative comments as well as the positive and I dont and wont take it personally. As for the dolers comments. I refute that too as i didn't make those comments. They were in fact made by M.B and Murray respectively. Maybe they'll come back on and add some more.I can not speak for those no less than I can speak for yourself. Glad you see I care for the game. I wear my heart on my sleeve and that is why I engage the gob and I can assure you i've had my grey matter on this topic for years and watched the game fade. 16 teams and at 1 stage it had rose higher if I remember correctly. My point also has nothing to do with how much beer people buy during a league. People in Tramore always go out on Thursday night to booze up irrespective of whether or not they play darts.Thats their own prerogative of course. As regards credit. You can have all the credit you want from me if you tried run the league in a different format. If it fell flat on its face which i'm certain it would not i'd say at least ye tried and i'd give you credit for that purely for not remaining stationary. I'm probably the first person ever to oppose your good selves but as I say its not personal. Only because I care and think hugely of how much of a benefit it would be.

Anonymous said...

alan butty, As i said only for the T.D.L there would be no darts in the waterford city/tramore area at all!!!! which I am sure you will agree. As for the beer thing you picked me up wrong I meant that nobody could enter the competition and hope to make profit unless they didn't drink at all.Yes I do recognise that you speak for the game but so does the T.D.L as best they can with what resources they have,only for the players and the publicans sponsorship in Tramore( try look for it in any pub in the city and I garuantee u see then) we would have no darts at all which I sure u agree would be worse. Finally I do know that the dolers comment was not yours.Lets leave it at that so butty.

Anonymous said...

I'm assuming now who I know who anonymous is and I cant leave it at that . The fact that there is no darts in Waterford City is the most irrelevant point i've ever heard. 2 wrongs dont make a right B..You wont find a dart board in Dublin City either but Dublin surrounding counties run successful leagues with less than 13 teams. I'm only using Dublin as an example of course. You only need to look how the progression made in young Mark and some of the other young lads over the past 2 years from playing regular darts. There are other lads not given the opportunity to play more. Thats what I'd be campaining for. Its about ambition and not money.

Anonymous said...

And I'm so relaxed that if I relax any more I'll stop altogether.

Anonymous said...

Big Den says.....
Galway runs a league on a home and away basis over a period of time with the overall winners claiming the trophy. We dont run play offs at the end of the year. Always been well run but we do have teams not turning up the odd night with one reason or another but that will happen and the others get the points. Surely anonymous must see that even if that is the worry players will still be playing more then they are now. You will never know un less you grow or go even.HAHAHAHA.

Anonymous said...

Are you stirring it up over there AL? Tell em about the 146. Up the reds. The scouse are cack.

Anonymous said...

a chip BUTTY is it?

Anonymous said...

I was up at the losers semi final last week .The lads that were playing were delighted to get another game and as Alan said,there was more at the game than at the winners semi.I think people are fed up because the same teams are always there when the semis and final comes around.you can't knock them for that they're the best,but they are getting all the extra games when all the rest of us are just twiddling our thumbs waiting for the next competition to come around.There's 2 handicaps a week and it's the same die hards that turn up for them and they take that prize money aswell.So go for it.A proper darts league,not the joke that has been going on the last number of years.

Anonymous said...

It is only anonymous because I couldn't be arsed setting up the name thing, u text me last night sure and I had allready been reading the whole thing.They ran a round robin 4-a side last year in town and it was not very successful as two teams ran away with it and at the end teams that could not win stopped turning up so it ain't as simple as you make it out to be.You were hard on the T.D.L in your blog and I had to put you straight on a few things,nothing personal as you say yourself.There are some v.good players coming up in Tramore of late,playing on Fridays in bohans and mondays in seahorse and one of their teams will be in the final soon I garuantee that,but you wouldn't have known that coz you ain't here to see that and thats why you should take it handy wid the tongue bashing on the T.D.L and do the research first. Keep in mind that the league has been running for 10 years so it cannot be as bad as you say in your blog... big man

Anonymous said...

I'd like to come in at this point as a publican who has been involved and supported the darts over the last number of years,and have a genuine love for the game also.There are pros and cons to either side of this,i admire Alans tenacity for bringing this subject to light.I myself approached the committee a few weeks ago about a losers group,players were coming back to me because they weren't going to get a game for another few months and this was genuinly frustrating for them,as they want to play more often,it's how you improve your own game,competition levels and morale.If i hadn't mentioned a losers group,we would have played on as normal with only 4 competitions a year.I personally think a season long league is a great idea and as a publican would be willing to forward more financial backing.Players are drinking in my establishment,it's only fair they come out with a modest prizefund,though i understand to most players,it's not about the money.I spoke to some members of the committe,they are willing to give my proposal of a league some thought.I think if there is no resolution on this matter,a vote should be casted by each league player.regardless of the outcome though,i will always continue to support darts.
Ferghal Bohan
The Waterfront
Tramore

Anonymous said...

Fair enough other anonymous lad the same lads often do win on fridays but how many times did Phil taylor stop dart players becoming world champion, u have to pity mardle,painter,manley etc they all should have been there playing best darts all the way through the tournament and then, well u know the rest.You must play the best in order to be the best,it is a pisser but that is the way it goes.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Fergal for that the commitee did take on your idea of the losers group but alan is insisting that they are set in stone and will not change which is not the case as proven by the fact that they listened to your idea,took it on board and now we have a losers group!! again I think Alan was hard on us.

Anonymous said...

Thanks anonymous,but i keep in contact with Alan and he was actually the one who gave me the idea for a losers group so he deserves the credit on that.The losers group proves that we probably do need something like the season long darts league.Isn't this debate great as you have professional players like Alan Warriner-Little adding comments,it can only be a good thing for the sport.Best of luck to all tonight.Wouldn't it be great to have the darts running for 30 weeks rather than just 8 weeks?though many would say there is another competition starting in a few weeks,one season long league would keep the game running longer and smoother. FB

Anonymous said...

Fair enough fergal,i think your skills of negotiating are better than alans though ha,ha.It seems to be a good idea though getting positive feedback all round.

Anonymous said...

I cant help but notice the constant references and comparisons to Waterford City darts here. They are beyond a joke so please dont compare with what went on in there to what goes on or can go on in Tramore. Waterford darts are boardering on corruption and to be honest if I were ye I would not get involved with anything in there.Round robin or not.

I'm not being hard on ye in Tramore lads so dont be thinking that.We have the interest in the game at the moment to take it to another level. Lets do the league in September lads. Lets eliminate all this jumping ships. Fellas playing for Bohans today and The Cape tomorrow. Lets play the game the way its meant to be played, lets survey the lads and see what they think, lets at least try to develope the game further.
I suggested the losers group to Ferghal as a quick fix option to give the lads a few extra games and the losers group cannot and will not be a long term solution.
The next knockout league will start in a few weeks time with minimum of 8 teams looking forward to playing just one game again.
Giong back to what angry anonymous said about up and coming players. I know exactly who are up and coming in that town despite not being around and of course one of them will eventually get to a final. If ya keep throwing shit against the wall some of it will stick. That of course is a saying now and I'm not refering to anyone or anything as shit before people jump down my throat. What I mean by it is you always get evolution due to the fact that the so called senior players jump ship so often that they try and field a packed team as often as they can by picking one of the up and coming players. Dont anybody dare tell me this doesn't go on. Example of that in Tramore is this. Team 1 consists of players A,B,C,D. They lose a semi final , start talking about each other pushing the other ones character down and throwing insults at one another so then they jump to another pub to play for in the next league, get rid of players C and D and get in players E and F who have now been poached from a team that they played for in the last league but were eliminated in round 1. A winter combined league would eliminate all this unfaithfulness between teams/pubs too.

Anyway people Manley V Priestley with Phil Jones MC exhibition in Cork so I've a busy weekend coming so I'll do my best to be near a PC so I can continue this debate but at the end of the day its the committee with which the book will stop. I've resigned to always only canvassing for this (thats what a few lads asked me to do)as I dont think it'll ever happen but I hope dearly i'm in fact wrong and they give it a go.I'm not suggesting you do it until next season but its only a suggestion but as angry anonymous said earlier you are not set in stone so lets get it on.Discuss it at your next meeting anyway. I'll try and "relax" and not lose too much sleep over your decision as I'm pretty sure I know what it'll be.

I'm signing off on this as I need to write a new blog tomorrow about the exhibition ahead but you can still leave your comments and I will reply when I get a chance.
Thanks.

Angryman said...

I will put it forward butty and from this day on I guess i be the angryman ha ha.

Anonymous said...

Any chance these anonymous people wud take the 4seconds longer it takes to click the 'other' button and stick a name in so we who the fcuk is saying what?

Anonymous said...

al pat here carlow run on a leauge basis its not to bad most of us in it for the love of it and will always will be there just for the game maybe it will never be right but we will keep going anyway .